The COVID-19 pandemic didn’t hurt the shipping markets. Despite massive geopolitical turmoil and economic uncertainty, they even did well in 2022. How do you explain this resilience? JR There are several reasons for it. One very important reason is that many shipping companies tended to hold back on orders in recent years, which is why there was and still is no overcapacity in the market. This was often enough the case in the past, and it led to low rates. At the same time, global demand for transport capacity has been high, and the pandemic has caused congestion in some ports, immobilizing ships and containers. In addition, after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, some supply routes disappeared and new ones had to be established. These developments, which are actually very negative, also tied up capacities and ultimately contributed to the good state of the markets. Do good markets mean good business for the bank? JR It helps a lot, to say the least! We closed 2022 with just under €1.6 billion in profitable gross new business, so we are satisfied with that. The bottom line is that we earned €77 million after taxes in Shipping. So far, Hamburg Commercial Bank has focused on the asset classes containers, bulkers and tankers. Will that also be the case in 2023? JR Those will remain our central pillars, definitely. However, we want to try to become more active in the carrier and offshore asset classes this year, both of which have recently become attractive again. To what extent? JR The market for car carriers has developed very well after a difficult phase. The demand for car carriers is high and there is limited availability since very few new orders were placed in recent years. With regard to offshore, the Russian invasion of Ukraine has led to a very different way of thinking about gas and oil today than before the war. It is now important to secure energy supplies for the medium and long term so that an emergency situation doesn’t occur. Against this background, more is being invested to develop oil and gas fields. That’s why the market forships that supply the big platforms has become attractive to us. Which countries were the focus of deals last year? JR Greece contributed over 50 percent to our new business. Greek shipping companies – often familyrun companies – are traditionally very active and again bought and sold many ships in 2022. However, we are also active in the rest of Europe, and North America and Asia are attractive growth markets, so we want to increase our presence there. What about Germany? JR Unfortunately, Germany has become much less important as a shipping location over the past 15 years or so. We still have German customers who have experienced good years recently. I c ould imagine that we will do a bit more business in Germany again in the future. In the shipping industry, many ships were ordered in the past when freight and charter rates were high, resulting in an oversupply. Is there a threat this might happen again? JR I don’t think so. The cost of building a new ship is still very high, which is slowing the willingness to invest. Production costs have risen due to supply bottlenecks and limited capacities, among other things, and are currently well above the long-term average.